Custodian of Stories with Anju Maudgal Kadam

Malini Sarma 0:01

Hey, Anju this thank you so much for coming today to be on the podcast. I'm really, really excited to hear your story.

Anju M. Kadam 0:10

Malini, thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to talk to you. This is amazing. I'm sitting here in Bangalore, you're sitting there in the US. And we're talking day and night, isn't it? Yeah, it's amazing. I love the way technology connects us.

Malini Sarma 0:26

Yes. You know what, this has made the world a much smaller place.

Anju M. Kadam 0:30

It has it, hasn't it? Yes. And you

Malini Sarma 0:35

when I was looking up your bio, I'm just fascinated by all the things that you've done and that you're doing right now. But and I want the world to hear it. But let's start with your growing up because you are a communications major. You grew up in Mumbai, you went to Sophia college. Do you talk a little bit about you growing up in how you got into communications?

Anju M. Kadam 0:58

I'm sure I'm sure Wondering where do I begin I begin with Mumbai, Mumbai itself and I'm going to refer to this Bombay because it was Bombay, when I was there, it became Mumbai much much later. Bombay is a city that is not only is it nurturing, but it also it's like a mother kind of pushes that child you know, out Come on out of its comfort zone. I really feel that Bombay has a life of its own and and is a living being, I think I think the cities as a living being and it, it defines you in a sense and I and I, I say this often that my years of growing up and and then studying in Mumbai, and then working in Mumbai have actually defined who I am today, Malini, I may have been a different person had I grown up somewhere else. I agree. I agree. I fully cognizant of this. I and my better and my Husband and I talk about this that when our kids grow up, we hope I mean, who knows where they'll go. One is in London right now in college and one is here at home. But we hope that they will work in a place like Bombay, which gives you that little bit of, you know, a push out of your comfort zone and says, Come on, you know, make your mark. Yep. And so, you know, growing up in Bombay, I have to tell you, I wasn't born in Bombay, I was born in Haryana in a place called Karnal. I was just about a year year and a half when we moved to Bombay. So I call myself a Bombay girl and I call myself a fake haryanvi

so I know how to I know how to cuss in Haryanvi.

Unknown Speaker 2:48

And even now,

Unknown Speaker 2:48

I think as I grew up, I kind of fall back on the on the on the slang sometimes that I've heard my uncles and aunts kind of talking or, or you know, in this beautiful world in Urdu There's a beautiful word called Leheza you know the tone the nuance of a language. Yeah, and I think I fall back on that sometimes as I grow older but I'm a Bombay girl because I'm I grew up I would bet that that's my home

Anju M. Kadam 3:17

away from home today I have I now have made so many homes in so many cities and so many suburbs but Bombay will remain my first home for sure. So the

Malini Sarma 3:27

communications part of how did you get into that was it like, you know, you were just a natural and your parents like this would be perfect for you or you just kind of fell into it and you just kind of just worked out?

Anju M. Kadam 3:40

So I'm going to try and answer this question as honestly as I possibly can.

Unknown Speaker 3:46

I have my parents separated when I was 13. Okay, and it was not a very pleasant separation. It was hard hard times for us for my sister and I my older sister, my older Brother would much much grown up there 14 and 16 years older to me, and my other sister we call this our first and second generation kids from parents we call them it was a hard time. And I think that my mother found herself in a position where she was bringing up two young teenagers all by herself with very little wherewithal. And so, therefore, for my mother, much like Bombay, the city, it became very important for my mother and and my city, for my sister Manjula and myself to to make our mark to to grow up and to be self sufficient. And I think that our strength comes from that time I have to say adversity Malini I truly truly believe builds character. Yes, and I would like to think that we are very strong women very fierce women of the house. My brother sometimes doesn't know what to do with all of us women that he's surrounded with the sisters and the mother. So that's when it began. I was drawn towards communication Malini I was drawn towards communication. I am the youngest I'm the brat of the family

Unknown Speaker 5:18

I am still the brat of the family at 52 I'm not taken seriously by my family by the way I must tell you this is my this is I'm most annoyed by that. But

Unknown Speaker 5:29

But I was drawn to communication my mother after my graduation I wanted to start off with my communications degree. And my mother said nothing doing this family is a family of doctorates and post doctorates. Your father your sister, your Your brother has been in management school after his IIT, you cannot do that Anju you cannot break the rule. Hmm. You have to at least get your masters. Wow.So off I went to Bombay University and got my master's in economics and international trade and econometrics. I'm going to say okay, now I'm done here. Here's a degree. Now, can I go back to what I really like to do? When I look back at it? Oh my gosh, you know, I did two years of very hard work. Hmm. It was not easy. The subjects that I chose, I made it more difficult for myself. But I'm, you know, learning never goes to waste right? I'm sure it's in me. I'm an economist too, including everything else that's in the mix that I am. So then I then I came back to communications and I had always seen this particular course offered in in, in the Twin colleges where I went, I went to an all girls school, all girls college, and this was, in fact in the Polytechnic of the college that was sort of affiliated with ours, okay, and it had a course called social Communications media it fascinated me It had radio, it had television, it had pr it had advertising, have ethics of journalism, all things that I was drawn to I remember as a little child.

Anju M. Kadam 7:14

I grew up as I'm sure you remember this too. I grew up with radio.

Unknown Speaker 7:20

Yep. As a child. In India, there used to be this very prolific program called inspector Eagle, which was this you know, the storytelling with all the sound effects as effects and stuff about this inspector that solved on all of the murders, the thrillers , whatever the plots television actually came only during when did it come during asian games? Yes, yes. Yes.

Malini Sarma 7:48

It was in the 80s. Like,

Anju M. Kadam 7:50

yes. Oh, yes. Yeah, television only came then. And it was magic. Yeah, right.

Unknown Speaker 7:57

I don't know what color television was like. Wow.

Anju M. Kadam 8:01

Used to be nice to have this television called EC TV the brand. It was one of one of the few homes in our society where we lived in our in our enclaves for people who live abroad society is a very Indian or a group of communities that are in an enclave in that yes. In this enclave that I live, I think as was the first home that had a television and maybe all three homes that had a television for about a couple of years. It was expensive, in

Unknown Speaker 8:33

fact, that magic I remember sitting down and then it was just a state owned

Unknown Speaker 8:41

a broadcasting door darshan at this time. Yep. And just the magic of television. The fact that there are there are three tubes, the RBG and it sends out an O it's like aliens have come come home. Yes. fascinated Yes. I think we dig as if people as in people, collectively I say this for the world, we have begun to take magic for granted. Because the inventions and discoveries for granted you turn on a switch and and a room is filled with light on. I'm like a child even today.

Anju M. Kadam 9:20

And they'll be like, this room.

Unknown Speaker 9:24

Television was like that for me just the fact that we could bring home people. Mm hmm. Who would entertain us who would inform us the newsreaders which is poise that they had grace that they had on Indian television at that time, you were just exemplary and I think that kind of sparked my interest. So I'm going back and forth here. I think that that sparked my interest, but I may not have realized it then. I may not have put it into so many words. You know, hindsight is 2020 but I think that that's what sparked my interest. So of I went to do my My social communications media course and I chose my major is television. And I then had to do an internship for two months before I got my degree. And I took an internship in television. I did not want to do advertising, I was sort of the kind of person that I am I think I would have possibly had a little bit bit of violence, you know, in a, in a conference room when the client said that I had to make the woman wear red lipstick and sell an air conditioner. Yes. Because by then I was strong woman, you see, yes, yes. So So yeah, advertising is not my thing. It's really not my thing. I prefer a more honest, more, more direct communication and I thought television was fascinating. Also, television was fascinating at that time, this is the early 90s 1993 India was going through a big change. We had satellite television come to us around that time. Hmm. So the monopoly of the state station doordarshan was given way to satellite television and there was a plethora of platforms coming in. It was a very exciting time, it was a nascent media. There were no qualified television artists or television crew. It was more of a fallout of a film crew that would come and do something. I think. I and a couple of people one year down and one year up with the first few professionals of television, especially trained in television. Say that Mm hmm. And of course, I'm saying that outside of doordarshan right? Doordarshan itself was like a big mammoth industry. Yes, but the homegrown talent, right. And again, even They're, if you remember, a lot of them came from radio, it's always that track. There's a cross pollination of, of mediums and then one medium kind of settles down in its own identity. And I think that we were able to give that identity to television. So it was a very exciting time nascent medium. So we were like Alice in Wonderland, you know, gaping and, and performing at the same time. Yes. It was like drinking

Anju M. Kadam 12:26

from the firehose. It was so much.

Oh, completely, completely, I think one week into it, and I knew I had found what I wanted to do.

Unknown Speaker 12:39

That's awesome. That was amazing.

Anju M. Kadam 12:42

I say this. It was and you know, why? And I think, you know, now as I continue to talk, you will find that I kind of have almost a theme in my life. Mm hmm. I was surrounded by amazing people. Malini

Unknown Speaker 12:59

that's that's really That's really cool, because not everybody has that. So I think you were very lucky. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 13:06

Yeah. I was. I was I was very lucky to have an amazing boss. Amit Khanna I mean, of course, you know, we would not we would not the innocent angels who didn't know what was happening in every industry and didn't get the brunt of it. You know, being a woman trying to sort of set up your name in it, you get all of that change me being young 23 I was really when I went into television. I had an amazing boss who shielded us from a lot of things and who, who believed in us Malini , that is very Empowering, huh. It's very empowering to have someone believe in you. And give you the baton and say run with it. I trust you. Mm hmm. Wow. And I think you know, we still stay in touch with him. Our our erstwhile boss, whom we say is the father of television in that sense, um, he's Amit Khanna, a prolific writer. Amazing, amazing man. And he, he taught us sometimes even what not to do.

Anju M. Kadam 14:09

But a lot of times what to do

in the game of life, not just in television, and today I thank him for that really put me he was

when I look back he was he was

perhaps the father figure I never had. Okay, in terms of setting direction in terms of I don't mean father figures right, right direction and what I'm saying, right, right. So, you know, the figure who kind of set me off on a journey and said, I got your back,

Malini Sarma 14:42

right. You said he was your compass. He kind of told you which way to

Unknown Speaker 14:45

go. Yeah, yes, yes. And like I said, surrounded by amazing people. Amazing, amazing energy makes magic happen. And we were all learning on the job. We were all working hard. We didn't know what sleep was. We were working day and night, it's so exciting, right? You think the word sort of is balanced on your shoulders? You think that responsibility So, so seriously. I did that for about 13 years. Mm hmm. And I did everything short of running the tape on my fingers. I did everything I presented. I produced I interviewed, I directed, I scripted. I made documentaries. I became a bureau chief within the first two years of working, the youngest bureau chief Actually, I trained. And it was such a ride I really feel like I lived a lifetime in those 13 14 years of my working mainly because it was a nascent medium and it went boom, boom, boom, boom from there. And we were just at the right place at the right time. And if we were willing to put in the grit and the determination and the hard work Hmm, we saw results. Hmm.

Malini Sarma 15:58

So were you were you like the only woman with the other women like you, I mean how

Unknown Speaker 16:03

that

Anju M. Kadam 16:07

so a lot of it will like I said was a fallout of our films and films. Typically the crew was all men. okay of course that has changed drastically now right every the world including India

but yes, I would be on a crew the only woman

Malini Sarma 16:26

Wow. And you didn't have a career and you never had any issues as far as you know, giving direction and the men actually taking direction Did you have you had you had that? What do you call magic that they just kind of? Yes ma'am. Whatever you say

Unknown Speaker 16:44

yes and no yes and no. And remember that there were other women working also and so I think everyone should have paved the way for others you know, with with the crew for the others that said, you know, if someone had a had an episode, then they talked about To the sort and we sort of dealt with it with this very gracious man, like I said, but I tell you something I learnt. I'm going to I'm going to hand it to my mother. I learnt to do the balance well, very early. Okay? Very rarely. If I am a people person, it's of course, everything, all my opposite background, but it's definitely what my mother has taught me how to do things preciously how to back off how to give in. You know, I'm a yoga teacher now. And I always say, when I ask people, what kind of tree Are you and they say, you know, as mighty as the oak. And I always say, I'm a bamboo. I bend but I won't break. Yes, yes. No, I'm so I learnt to negotiate. I learned the art of negotiation in what I wanted to be in what I wanted to do with carrying these people along. I remember that. It's, you know, they would call For me, the disciplinarian really and I was just 23 or 24 By this time, and I was like, you know, I was working with men who were 40 and 45. And you know the cameraman or whatever, but I had rules no one drinks on my watch only after I call for backup do people start drinking? You know, we would be, you can imagine we would be at press conferences. You know, it was Bombay. So even though I didn't do the Bollywood thing, sometimes I was covering up for someone we will ending up in a Bollywood shoot or whatever. But there were rules. And I have to say that almost everyone stop if they stick by the rules, I called it Hmm. I called it. there were rules. I was treated wonderfully. I was always given the front seat next to the driver while they also packed themselves like sardines at the back.

Anju M. Kadam 18:50

I don't remember any particular incident

Malini Sarma 18:55

where it's Where's anybody questioning your authority? You know, where they're like, Who are you? Are you the boss of me? kind of thing and you kind of put them in their place. Well, you never had you never really had to worry about that because they respond. I'm

Anju M. Kadam 19:06

sure I did. I'm sure I did. And I think I've just forgotten because

Unknown Speaker 19:12

for woman is a bit of a par for the course, isn't it? Oh, yeah. I don't know any woman who would say I've never faced something like that. I mean, she's damn lucky. She's damn lucky. She hasn't faced that. Um, nothing comes to me, but I'm sure I did. Nothing really comes to me. I'm sure I did. You know, there was there was no prolific moments of Oh my God, this happened and I had to do this, huh? Oh, I did it. I did it. I'm a strong woman. I can deal with it. I don't I don't make a big fuss out of things. Okay,

Malini Sarma 19:44

no, anything. That's a thing. That's a trait of most strong women. It's like they're like, you know what, we'll just deal with it. It's easier for me to do it than ask somebody else.

Unknown Speaker 19:53

Yeah, yeah. But as you know, as I went along, I in fact hired many, many women into the into the fold. And now they're heading channels in India and I'm so proud of them really. Um, and now when I meet them, they tell me, you say this for Amit, and you did it for us. So I'm glad that I learned well from my boss that this is the way I need to look after my team. And they've also gone out and done amazing things, all strong women. Yes, we all face the I'm not listening to you. The thing is, I mean, you know, in India, patriarchy is like, Oh my god, you know, it's, there are men who don't know any other way. Right? The way they've been brought up. And also, it's kind of a cross society kind of coming together, right? I mean, your your record is so your, your your life man is coming from a different kind of socio economic background, right? You're coming from a different one. They expect us differently. And that's what I mean that if it makes sense For me to say Namaste Dada then I say dada, which is a greeting saying, you know, good morning Brother, you know, dada is brother in Hindi,

Unknown Speaker 21:12

then I would do it

Unknown Speaker 21:13

right. It was okay. It was okay. I didn't have to make them say good morning mam to me, right. I was never on that trip. Okay, it was okay. Yeah. So you and you stayed

Malini Sarma 21:24

you were in that industry for more than 20 years. And then you pivoted from working, you know, for company to starting your own. How did how did that come about? Was that, you know, was it a life moment that you meet? Okay, now it's time for me to move or was it something that you're like, Okay, now you're there enough people there that can handle it and I need to go off on my own. How did that what is it what was the seed that kind of started?

Unknown Speaker 21:53

So it was in life, life decision, I would say my husband and I Marriage by that time for about three and a half years, I think. And I knew that I wanted to have children, okay. I knew that I knew that I wanted to have children. I was pushing 30 by that time 3031 I think and I and he was here he had actually pivoted in his work and decided to chase the IT sector as a as a goal. And then he decided to move to Bangalore. And at that time, Malini, I must confess, I was on a bit of a burnout in television, it's very demanding. Yeah, and I had some very demanding times I covered the whole Harshad Mehta scam, the whole bank scam I used to go into jail to do interviews. I did that I used to cover the stock market every single Friday. I was supposed to be in the well of the stock market when the bombs went off, but just That date it had got canceled and everyone would come to me and realize I wasn't there. So, you know, the bombay riots ride the Bombay bombs went off in Bombay. The Bombay riots happened while I was I was there, you know, the army was out and around with press press stickers on our little maruti the dinky cars I go and drive around. So I was I was burned out I true confession, I was burnt out, I was beginning to burn out and that was you know, before and it was much of the same coming at me after a while. I had built many, many projects, but there was much of a point when I was ready for a bit of a break. I'd also been working from the time that I was almost 14

Unknown Speaker 23:43

Mm hmm.

Unknown Speaker 23:45

I used to I pay for my education by doing tuitions. I used to take tuitions for kids. I just some odd work here. They're higher purchase something or the other. I had been working from the time I was 14 and I think I was ready to take a bit of a break. Okay. So that is what prompted the move to Bangalore. Hmm. And the husband came here I said, you go along, you stay there for about three months. You see how you're liking it, then I'm going to put in my papers. And I did. He liked it here, moved here. And very quickly, when when I came here, we moved off to Boston, for for about a year. Came back here. It was a.com bust at that time in the 2000. And when my son was born, I was pregnant. In fact, in Boston with my son, we were pregnant. And we came back and we began to rebuild our life because it was quite a jolt. We have talked to people, at least in the short term, be there but we always wanted to come back to both the youngest of the family we feel very strongly that we must be looking after our family and we should be there for the people who were there for us growing up so they clearly didn't want to settle down abroad but certainly got cat shots. So we came back and we roll with those punches also. The husband was working at that time. And in fact, in that year, he took the jump and turned entrepreneur. Oh, okay. So that was a very scary phase. And I was like, really? We just had a son. Do we want to be doing this? And also, you know, it was a it was a hard, hard time. Personally, my sister had just been diagnosed with cancer, who was supposed to be in Washington DC with her. All of those dreams came crashing down was a hard time so that one year was really hard to get in became out a bit stronger. He turned entrepreneur in that one after that one year, just about after that one year. And, and he's, like I said, while I was sleeping, looking after the kids, my sabbatical term longer than I thought it was seven years sabbatical. Okay, long years. I had two kids and I was dabble in this and that. But you know, I was so happy being the homemaker. It was not something I had ever done before, right? Ever, ever. And I enjoyed myself until I started climbing the walls and said, Now I need to chop chop get back.

Anju M. Kadam 26:18

Once the kids are old enough, I decided to so I went back and I studied Malini. I went back to the IIMb Okay, management school here and I got a

I got my certificate in women entrepreneurship.

Unknown Speaker 26:35

Oh, nice. Okay. Yeah,

Anju M. Kadam 26:37

yeah. And the only reason I did that was because I wanted that button that had turned off in my mind to switch on again. Mm hmm. Valid I just wanted to be I just wanted to get into the groove and see if I still had it. Why the face that you see is a very strong confident face inside I would shake. I didn't know if I had it in me and sort of cool and of course, we went through The whole thing of shall I be an interior decorator? Shall I open a boutique? Shall I do a little bit of tailoring? What should I do now to manage, you know, the kids and the whole manual to take it easy. And I had a I have a strong partner who sort of, you know, is my partner in crime really grown together. And that's the lovely part of our, of our marriage. We just celebrated 25 years of being married in Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you so much. So we've grown together. Luckily, we've grown in the same direction together. And he said, he said that, and that's what I mean, I had the luxury of choice. Mm hmm. He had already in those seven years, built a small company, an IT company, we were doing touchwood fairly well. And now I have the luxury of choice to choose what I wanted to do. I chose not to work for anyone. Okay. I chose to take the help. To take the harder path I think also Bangalore will remain a satellite towns to communication, yes to Delhi and Bombay by sheer virtue of being political entertainment and financial capitals of the country, right on news and lend themselves to newsworthiness. Yes. And in that sense any other place any other place in India will always be a satellite feeder of news something interesting happens it's covered but otherwise you know, it doesn't make news because Bangalore became the IT Hub and all the rest of it while all of this was going on, but it you know, it it made news in some circles, but it was it you know, what does that cause? newsflash, stop, stop the press. That kind of news doesn't didn't does not happen in Bangalore even now. So I was very, I did look Malini, I did look you Before I had my babies for that year, I thought, let me take on a job and see what they have to offer. They didn't have much to offer and I was actually caught. In a catch 22 situation, I would say, Hey, I'll do anything you want me to do? And they would look at my resume and say, if a resume reads this, why does she want to do anything at all? Right, then that means there's something wrong. Yeah, yeah. And I never got anything that my resume would have warranted because the game was not big enough in Bangalore. Hmm. Okay. So I decided that I was going to repackage my communication skills and open a communications company and I did just that. Awesome. And that's what you've been doing all this time. And that is what I have been doing all this time and of course, added all kinds of roles as I went along. But yes, that is what I do. I have built very quietly, I'm not I'm not a known figure in communications in Bangalore. No, I'm not. Okay. I think that that is, you know, one can very easily scale up very quickly. But this is the luxury that I that I afforded myself, I can say no to work. Mm hmm. And so therefore, the responsibility of doing good work lies squarely on my shoulders. Okay. Okay, so I gave myself that, you know, it's my thing, I went to good work. Of course, in the beginning, I did all kinds of work, but I would not I would not take on projects like advertising and Anju will you do not know No, I will not. I will not make an advertising from my loss maybe, but it's just the way I am. I was quite happy and like I said, we had already an IT company where we were already doing well, right. So therefore, I see that I truly believe that if I had to suggest on for the for the family. We would be singing another song.

Malini Sarma 31:02

Right, right. Right, right. When do you have the luxury to do this your way

Anju M. Kadam 31:05

I have the luxury to do this my way. And I chose this way because I was quite clear that if I didn't get what, what i what i was what the merit that I was that I needed, that I would make my mock. Mm hmm. Right. So, so about 37 38 I learned the digital world. My world was analog Malini Hmm, my mind was all analog. Mm hmm. So I learned the digital way I used to Google in my little little room that I had when I was working. In fact, even before I went into office, I remember the day my daughter went into nursery that day and moved into an office until then he work from home and my clients would not know that I was waiting at the main gate for school bus to come and I will be talking shop and talking business on the phone. Because they didn't need to know, right in the work was getting done, right. But I am the woman who has googled things before I have gone out and asked my team to do it because the 23 year old was so much smarter than me because they were technology natives and I was not. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 32:18

yeah. Yeah, I know. I feel I've taught myself.

Anju M. Kadam 32:22

I've taught myself. I've taught myself I have some fantastic work under my belt and some great clients who stayed with me for now. 20 years. Wow. Um, and and I do some very fulfilling work. I do some, I do my work quietly. I also do a lot of work for NGOs. Okay, brand building, fund fundraising. Just getting them messaging effective messaging out there, and I don't charge for it. So I'm quite happy that to earn and to balance that and to do work that is really fulfilling for me. So I do a lot of communication but very quiet. That's awesome.

Malini Sarma 33:06

Now you do a lot of projects and I you know, looking up in your bio, I see you know, your, your yogini, your brand ambassador for the Pinkathon ambassador. And you have the 100 saree project, which is my saree pact, which is my absolute favorite.

Unknown Speaker 33:24

So how does mine to? How did that all come about? How did that start?

Anju M. Kadam 33:31

When I turned 40 Malini I was.

So, a little bit of achievement and over I think it comes to being the youngest of a family that is fairly accomplished. So I have to keep doing that. Oh, my God, you know, I need to do something, I need to do something. But so back in the day, it may have made becoming from there, but when I was 40, I kind of sat down and said, okay, woman, now youre 40 And you've been sort of running in life due to circumstances. But now you have a little bit of breathing space. And because remember, I went back to work around 37. Right? I took those three years to again consolidate, right? I mean, take that first time to build a bit to build a business. In fact, I thought I did quite quickly. Um, and I said, What do you want to watch? Who are you? Anju Who are you? And the answer that comes to me and I say this often my Cornerstone will read learner for life. Hmm. And I taught that if I wanted to stay curious if I wanted to nurture my nature of inquiry, Mm hmm. I thrive in enquiry. I absolutely thrive in it. Then what can I do to keep this going and I decided that day that I would learn one new thing Every single year that is so cool until the time till the time that I live I will learn one new thing every year. Now this new this new thing doesn't have to be earth shattering okay? Not always It can't be that life happens. So it could be taking a salsa class it could be just anything outside my comfort zone. It could be anything literally I re taught myself how to run. I always thought I run like Phoebe and friends. I don't know if you've seen that episode but I retaught myself little little things, things we forget right when you're when you're growing up and life has been busy. And the rest of your life is passing by. You're like, Hey, I did that I did DJ course. But I also did other things. I was very keen on getting my yoga certification. Okay, yoga and yoga becomes me. Okay, I am my best version on the mat. I like myself on the mat. I like who I am on the mat. So I always wanted to do that it was just a thing that I needed. And I also thought that to immerse in yoga at all, you have to do a teacher training course because there is no other way to immerse in yoga, you go to a class and you come back, but embrace it, you know. So I did that. Pink athon came to me. I knew Milind for a while from my television days, actually, as much as you can know, a celebrity. But I discovered him in this new avatar of empowering women and it's something that's that's so close to my heart. And now that you know, my life story, you know that, you know, women being strong and being empowered and women having a voice is very important to me. So I sort of just rolled my sleeves and dug into that I helped build that brand, very, very, very, very prolific brand now in India, and it's India's only women run. So we have every city has about 10,000 women running on this The day that we that we run and that's amazing. Stories are amazing of women suddenly realizing that self care and self worth are so so deeply interlinked right Malini. We women tend to shortchange ourselves don't Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And somehow and this you will understand you you've been abroad for very long, but I think every woman anywhere in the world will understand that self care is sometimes looked at being selfish. Yes.

Malini Sarma 37:29

Yes. You here to this year to as a matter where Yes, yes. Very much. So. Yeah. Yeah. You

Anju M. Kadam 37:37

know, so so just having the gumption to say

Unknown Speaker 37:41

even if it

Anju M. Kadam 37:42

is to look after you better than I have to look after myself, even if it's if that's the reason and a lot of times for women that's the reason that that's where they begin until it sort of kicks in and and that and that, you know, physical health physical well being translates to a mental Push and trigger that's that's the that's, that's very, very I mean, it's it's cathartic. I know, when you see that change happen. It's amazing. So yes, Pinkathon and then the hundred saree pact. How does that impact in all humility, I must say, has been my greatest rich riches about I found in my greatest riches after my children being born. I really do. It has. It has had that deep and impact on my life on me on change me really, is it five years of standards, I bet. It started as an idea, like all good things that I never thought. I never sat in my home and said, I shall do this. I shall unite the women on it. Nothing. No, no, I have to be very honest about not being like that. I said, I'm going to wear my sarees because I'm a storyteller. To tell the stories of my saris and join in ladies Literally that was my first post literally. By the 12th to 14th day of the 100 sari pact In fact, I knew I was onto something special. And I knew that I had to grow up and take responsibility. Hmm. Because the world had opened up to me. Mm hmm. The world had woken up to the power of storytelling. Hmm. The women had opened up to the fact that they were the heroes of their stories and their stories must be told through the medium of the sari. So the 100 sari pact is actually it was about between two two women I you know, this friend of mine happened to call on the phone and she said what you're doing and I said I want to wear my my saris and I want to wear Okay, fine, let's do it. Okay, hundred saris this year, okay, let's do literally this was a conversation. So the pact was between to women to wear the sari 100 times, in that year of 2015 women from all over the world needed their own, needed their own pact. Some were 20 Some were 10. Some wore one and some didnt wear any and still got the audience to the storytelling that was happening. What was happening was very powerful. I think women and that too on social media Hmm. Social media, of course amplified the message for us. Something a wave of positivity that happened that year of women coming together women supporting women. Oh, my gosh, that hashtag is so so, so relevant now. Yes, but, you know, every storyteller needs an audience. Yes. Right. You want your story to be heard? Yes. You want the validation, the endorsement that comes from that. And this was not just one kind of woman This was homemakers, teachers, lawyers, doctors. Scientists, runners, women from all over the world were opening their cupboards and saying I have the sari. And so often it was what story of mine Should I tell today? What moment Should I relive today? What should I take strength from? Not all stories but happy stories? I have to say not all stories have to be happy stories, right? You can be Gaga happy all the time. That would be just silly. Hmm. But they were blissful. And they were and they were challenging. And there's some some of them challenge authority, some of them challenge stereotypes. made us think we does reflect inflection points, so many inflection points from stories that you hear from other women. You see a little bit of yourself in it and you say, how would I do this? Hmm, you know, it got that it got that going for women from all over the world and united us in such a beautiful movement. Today I get messages just day before Yesterday, I got a message saying New York is opening up and we've decided to meet socially distance Boston sent me a photo saying, Here's a photo of my backyard and they're all sitting in chairs. And there's a beautiful Saree telling stories. Someone has said to me something and says, Anju, I've built friendships that last me a lifetime thanks to this and that is what happened. You found the

the Niche. You found the friends. Not everyone is my friend and not everyone has to be my friend. Right. But they found their own. They found their own tribes, their little little tribes of commonalities of common interests are common, you know, oh, you're from Kanpur, I'm from Kanpur, you know, you know how it is

Malini Sarma 42:54

right? Right. Right. So this is so powerful for you that not only not only that, you will Usually had the whole world unite because of the sari, and the stories but you were also in you did a TEDx talk you did a TED talk. Even Shahrukh Khan you met him when he also did he gift you uh sari,

what was that story?

Anju M. Kadam 43:17

I did the TED talk, TED actually decided to come to India and do a TED talk on television. Its called TED talk Nayi soch. so they've done it once in Canada and now in India. And so, you know, I just got this call in May of 2017 saying, you know, we're calling from TED and I am a researcher and I getting Yeah, okay, so Sahil I remember Sahil is a friend now? Yeah. Okay. So I really thought it was calling me for some connection in Bangalore you know, you because I am that person. I am a connector of people in that sense, you know, to friends will meet them. And I say okay, you know, she does this, you do this. See if you can find the synergy go away. Be kind to each other. You're both my friends, you know that I kind of tend to connect people. Many times I find people reach out to me for that. Um, and I thought this was a cold call for that. Let's talk about the 100 sari pact. So we spoke, we had a few I had a beautiful time. writing this trip distilling my thought it was also great to gain perspective from a distance in that year. It was relentless, you can imagine, right? Beautiful but relentless. He had given me a little bit of time to just sit down and watch and absorb what just what had happened in that year. And learn from it. And I put all of that into my TED Talk. And then we were told, of course, closer to the shooting that was happening in Bombay, that Mr. Shahrukh Khan will be presenting it and we were like, Alright, fine, you know, he's gonna go do his thing we're going to do I think they're going to sort of stitch it together. All right, fine, great. Until Two days before the shooting and we were all invited in three days before the shooting to do our practice and you know stage and all this and we were told oh you know, Mr. Khan is actually going to be talking to you after your talk and and what are the questions? We don't know he's decided that he wants to talk to all of the all of the people telling stories about what he hears he wants to take it extempore No, oh my god. All right, fine. Now do not stress later on. Um, I finished my talk. I had my mother in the audience. I had my daughter my son and my husband in the audience, my niece. It was so lovely in some some Sari pactors were in the audience also some of some some of whom Bombay, us beautiful, it was beautiful. I really.

It was a perfect day. He was perfect. It all came came out well.

delivered, were like And then this man comes up and starts talking about his mother and his Sari story and it was so nice that he showed us all

me that she showed me the power of the hundred sari pact it makes people tell their story. So many men have told me the Sari stories. Men are not strangers to the sari. Not in the Indian diaspora. Yeah, no. Yeah. So he gives a glimpse of a little boy missing his mom, ad. And he said, I have something for you. And I was like, Oh, okay. I was I don't know if you've seen the TED talk, but I look very confused. And he says, I remember looking at my husband, my husband was saying just be cool. I can see him sort of saying that. What the hell is happening here? Why can't I just leave the stage and go away and just finish my talk? Huh? He came up with this gift and gave it to me and as I was walking away, I was like, Oh, all right, fine. Star TV you've got that moment. You know, like they bring out somebody You from the past and you're a race and you cry in the television moment has to be done. Anyway to get my shot. I was I was very overwhelmed. Of course, the fact that, you know, they had done something like that, to me was walking back and saying, okay, fine, and the producer happened to come down and say, Anju, fantastic. we'd really love to deliver. Oh, no, it was just a nice pep talk. They were doing it for all of us. And I said, Thank you. That was a lovely gesture for you to give me a Sari through Mr. Khan. Thank you so much. I mean, I'm so I'm overwhelmed.

Unknown Speaker 47:30

And then she said,

Anju M. Kadam 47:32

and she was gonna say something, she walked away because someone called her and then we were asked to come on stage after the whole thing and take photos with him because they want to press photos, blah, blah, blah. Just as a stepping back on the red.to be to be in the same frame as him. The producer tapped me on the shoulder and said, Anju I'm just going to tell you, the Sari is not from Star TVs from Mr. Shahrukh Khan. Oh, wow. And I was like, Okay, now you can clean me off the floor. Okay, now go take your photos for this I did not want to do Malini I it was it was quite the moment. Uh huh. I walked up on the red dot and I said Shah Rukh come in, you know, it seems like the Sari from you know, I'm I don't know what to say but thank you. He said, you know, aapne maa ki yaad dilaadi translates to you reminded me about, about my mother know about all about my mom who and his mother wore the sari all the time. To the

mother's, sari, this was his mother's sari no, no, no, no, no. Okay. No, no, no, it was it was a new stock. Okay. Okay. I would love to

have as mother sari, but no.

Unknown Speaker 48:45

Okay. I

Unknown Speaker 48:46

know. But

Unknown Speaker 48:48

I just that was such a thoughtful gesture, though. That was so nice.

Anju M. Kadam 48:53

Yeah. So parently when the team had gone to him to sort of whatever run him through the episodes And they talked about the hundred Sari pactand he said, Can I bring this lady a gift? And they were like, yeah, you're Shahrukh Khan. You can do what you want. We'll arrange for the Saris. So if you want to give it at the side, I said, No, no, I'll do it. Wow. And I think the day was the day before we were shooting, they had gone to him and said, if so you wanted to give her a Sari will arrange for it, you know, and he said, No, it's all done. Wow. And it was so beautifully packed Malini and someone had taken pains to really, really make it special in a right, you know, that's what I mean the power of the pact. See, he wasn't giving it to Anju. Do you have to understand this? Right. He doesn't know me right now. Oh, let me give Anju a sari. He's giving the sari to the hundred sari pact lady maybe because he connected with it. Yes. Isn't that just beautiful? You know, the Sari belongs to the 100 sari pact. I've said this so often that Yeah. I humbly accept on behalf of them beside fact on behalf of every woman. Of course, I got many, many looks that day in all of my of my two shows, including the women's captain of the cricket team. They all looked at me and said he didn't give us any gift. I

was like, I'm sorry.

Unknown Speaker 50:25

If you're the chief nurturer, so

Anju M. Kadam 50:30

got me. That is

Malini Sarma 50:32

awesome. Much. That is such an amazing story I love I love the power of the storytelling yet attracted, you know, it attracted a movie star in Bollywood who didn't even know you, but the power of the story reminded him of his mother that prompted him to gift you a sari. And I think that is such an amazing story. You know, the power of the story just to me is

Anju M. Kadam 50:55

humbling. So um, yes,

Malini Sarma 50:57

yes, that's incredible.

Unknown Speaker 50:59

So going back

Malini Sarma 51:00

You have, you have made such an impact you have had so many stories you have had touched so many people's hearts, you know, with the story with 100 sari pact. When you go back and think about your life so far, knowing all that you have, you know, what would you know now and all that you've done so far, is there anything that you wish you would have done differently? Or like, you know, I mean, of course, you are basically a product of or a conglomeration of all your experiences, right. But yes, knowing what you know, now, is there anything you would have gone back and changed or something that you would have, you know, done a little bit differently, you think?

Unknown Speaker 51:45

Any skill or anything that you

Unknown Speaker 51:47

would have said,

Anju M. Kadam 51:49

up until the up until my mid 20s, late 20s Malini? I was just hitting the ground running into survival. Mm hmm. Okay. Pure survival. Because of the circumstances that I was in, and then television, it was, again, a different kind of survival, right? Like I said, being a young woman in television in learning new things, proving yourself different kinds of survival, but survival it up until the mid mid 20s. It was survival. And then it changed tracks so quickly from being this professional woman to becoming a mother. So I call it two lifetimes I've actually lived two lifetimes in this one lifetime. That my, my before life before my children and after, and in that sense, I've had a very fulfilling life even before my children. Do you know what I mean? Yes, it's been a very fulfilling career. I've learned so much. I mean, it's kind of exposure that I've had. It's amazing. It defined who I am today. So do I have anything different to tell that person? Um, no, I think she did the best of what she what was what was good to her, and I think that she did well. In fact, sometimes I look back and say, Wow, how did I survive that? Huh? You know, so I think it's just, you know, fight or flight mode, right. And I was I was in full fight mode, I think, in making as gracefully as I could. I'm sure I made mistakes, I'm very certain of that. But as gracefully as I could, I was making making my making a place for myself under the sun. Um

after that, you know, I also mentor younger youngsters in their, in their,

in their work life. I'm also a mentor for women, mainly women. I like I like mentoring women because there's so many things that I think I can share with them, but also men

and women for sure in a second innings coming back in a second innings.

One thing I'd tell them the one thing that I would change if I'm could, though I, I hope that my kids remember when they grew up, I would not have taken that longer break. Hmm. Okay, I would not have taken that longer break. I'd say this to my daughter often. She's just 16. But I often tell her that she must if she wants to work, don't let anything come in the middle of that. I feel that I have to work very hard to come back and prove myself more to myself Malini than to the world. Because so much changed when I came back. Oh, yes. In seven years, the world had changed. People were talking. They were talking in English, but it was a different language. I didn't know I didn't understand things. I'm a very intelligent woman. Hmm. So I, I immediately due to mentoring because I can only imagine what other women who may not be as strong go through their current back into a second innings. Mm hmm. I can only admit. And therefore I'm a big, big, big champion of mentorship. So, when I change something, I would probably not have taken such a long break from.

Unknown Speaker 55:30

Okay, so now you said you said you have to say

Anju M. Kadam 55:33

this only because I'm a working woman. I'm not saying this for a homemaker who chooses to be a homemaker. That's perfectly okay. Right? I'm saying this for someone who, who

is revelin being a working woman. I'm a revel at my work. I enjoy my work. Mm hmm.

Malini Sarma 55:52

So So you said your daughter is 16 now and she looks up to you she's you know, either either. With a rolling her eyes or with absolute awe either way, depending on the mood, I'm sure.

Unknown Speaker 56:08

But what would you tell your daughter? You know, what are some of the lessons that you've learned that you want your daughter to know? So that she wouldn't have? She wouldn't have to think about it too much because she knows it will work. What are some of the lessons that you would tell her?

Anju M. Kadam 56:29

straight off the bat, one thing I would tell her which may not be a lesson, but it is something that I feel like I missed in my

Unknown Speaker 56:37

growing up

Anju M. Kadam 56:39

and my life to today do today. I miss it. I miss a home. I want to tell my children no matter where they are, there will always be a home for them. We've built that my husband and I together for them. Okay, and I don't just mean the four walls. You know what I'm saying? A place a place to come home. To a heart to come home to I want them to know that and with that Malini

it unleashes confidence. Yes, it just it's just it's just amazing to know that and I hope that they know that I'm hoping

what lessons would I you know, I would give the same lessons from my son I'm sorry but not Yeah sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 57:32

Don't settle. Never settle

Anju M. Kadam 57:36

I'm happy having said bend not break. I you know I've said that earlier in my in our talk. But when I said settle I mean and I say this very often even in my mentoring I think everyone especially the youngsters

need to know the non negotiables not what they can do. They need to know what they will not do, I want them to know very strongly what they will not do.

I want I want them to be able to not settle on that. What else would I tell her? I would tell her to be and him and I worry about this generation sometimes Yes. on technology. I would tell them to nurture relationships. Oh yes, very important. I would tell him to do that I would be half I would be a small person if I did not acknowledge that I have been surrounded by amazing teachers. amazing teacher, I have absorbed I have learned I have grown from them. And I want my children to have that circle of influence in their lives and not be cut off and looking into a phone or looking into compute all the time this generation tends to do that, you know, my sister and I, we often joke that our our kids, these teenagers have been preparing for COVID from the time they were born, right. You know, close your door, stay indoors physically distancing everything online. There you go. That's my kid. Um, so I would tell them to nurture relationships. I don't think that I don't think this generation realizes the value of relationships yet.

It's a hard one because their world is is all online.

Malini Sarma 59:36

Yes, they would rather text than call, you know? Yeah, True. True. And they would rather call than go see somebody you know,

Anju M. Kadam 59:44

All of us right now. We are a nuclear family. We don't have elders staying with us. Sometimes it's it's, it's nice to have an elder in the house. They learn differently. The children learn differently. I've seen that with my friends also, you know, I mean, There's a grandmother or grandfather or an uncle or something and, and you know, in India, people live with the family, you know, right. Right. Um, you know, some of those kids grew up differently. They are they are more resilient, they are more less entitled, more sharing.

Yeah, so I want my children to be

to value relationships. I think that's very important. I think that I would leave them with what my mother left me but in a very different way. And I think that this after this, I have imbibed they have imbibed from me, I want them to study.

I do, and luckily, they both want to, because it doesn't matter what you wanted to do. That is what they want, right? I think learning

really shouldn't ever stop. It shouldn't I hate the word expert. It means To stop growing,

and I hope that they continue to learn i think it's it's a fascinating journey of learning. Once you decide that you will be a learner of life, I would like them to do that. That is awesome.

Malini Sarma 1:01:14

And I think that that works for everybody. You never really stop learning. There's so much in this world to learn.

Anju M. Kadam 1:01:21

And it only comes from being open to learning right open. I mean, and you know, it's not learning from books and learning visits about you know, learning to to negotiate learning to have a relationship learning to have a healthy relationship with yourself all of those learnings, right?

Yeah, I just wanted to be happy. I wanted to find that happy. I think happiness is underrated. Nobody wants to be happy. Everybody wants to be successful.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:51

Yes, I don't think they realize the difference.

Anju M. Kadam 1:01:54

Yeah. And it's also the products of the society we live in, right? Yes. You've seen their parents work very hard to give them what what they have given them. So you know, it's a vicious cycle, right? Again, we all perpetrated in our lives. And now that we are stabilized, one would like them to realize that there's more. There's more money doesn't make you happy.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:19

Yeah.

Malini Sarma 1:02:20

No, it doesn't. But you know, tis a commodity. Yes. Yeah. This is just a byproduct of everything that you do. Absolutely.

Anju M. Kadam 1:02:26

Absolutely. Yeah, that's all my gyaan for my kids.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:31

I hope they're gonna listen.

Anju M. Kadam 1:02:32

They want to listen. I hope so.

Malini Sarma 1:02:36

But thank you, I thank you so much. Anju. This was this was amazing. I'm so glad I got to hear all of this. And I can't wait to hear what other people have to say, after hearing your story. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Anju M. Kadam 1:02:47

Thank you, Malini for having me. I hope I wasn't all over the place. I hope you make sense of this. Thank you so much. You're very welcome.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai