Malini Sarma 0:01

Merrill, thank you so much for joining the show. I'm really excited to talk to you today.

Merril Diniz 0:07

Hey, Malini, great to be here too. And I've been listening to all the previous episodes just love the vibe and the conversations.

Malini Sarma 0:15

I'm so glad you're here. I've been wanting to get you on, get you on ever since. You know, we met up last year. And I was telling you about my world trip and you had a little blurb about me on Sheroes. So I'm like, I gotta get I gotta get Merril here. She's got so much to talk about. So I'm really happy you're here. likewise. So the first thing I wanted to find out was you have lived pretty much as well in a lot of different places outside of India, right. So but you were you born in India and you grew up in India initially or were you were you outside of India, when you we've been your parents for In Muscat.

Merril Diniz 1:01

yeah, so, I mean, I was born in Goa, I lived in Goa for the first three, four years of my life. And my father went to the Middle East in 1976. My parents are both teachers, and they wanted to move out for better prospects. So, at that time, I remember the Indian School and Muscat was, was just growing it was in it was sort of an infancy and my dad was one of, you know, the first batch of teachers, one of those, the first batch of teachers there. So he went there and then my mom and me and my sister, we followed him in 1980. So after that, I lived in Muscat till I was about 15 years old. And it was a very, it's a lovely place, actually. beautiful landscape, beautiful beaches, mountains. You know, there's an oasis, all of that we would come to Goa for summer holidays, and I would, I would just love that. And I would feel a bit sad actually, when I would go back to Muscat because it has such a vibrant, warm, affectionate vibe. And of course, there's chaos, there's heat, but all of those really sort of awakened my senses. Right? So that's a little bit about, you know, to answer your question.

Malini Sarma 2:31

So, um, um, did you say your your sister? Does she have a disability? You grew up with a yes. With a sibling get a disability. So how was growing up? You must have been a very protective sister. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 2:46

Yeah, so my sister Her name is Janice. My sister is deaf. And she, you know, obviously in the 1970s and 80s. There was very, very little known about disability and also we didn't have access to the internet there, right? So it was a fairly lonely journey for my parents and me to navigate that whole experience and also for my sister, right? Because somehow as a child with a disability, you are more vulnerable. Right? And, of course, that there was that whole journey of learning what it is about, and that there is a panic in parents when they come to know that a child has a disability. So we went to a lot of specialists and speech therapists and all of that. And so my sister, she, my sister is a very, you know, sort of she's, she's an interesting person, she's stubborn, she is very, very focused about what she wants. So her personality came through right, right from the beginning. But I think the biggest challenge really was finding the right kind of education at that point. Like Indian sign language is the language of the Deaf, but at that point it was not well developed. And there was a kind of sign language there. But and of course, she and I developed, we developed our own sign language because we didn't really know that there was anything official right. And so, so, yeah, education was a tough one, but somehow we managed and then in in, you know, in 2010, I brought it to Delhi. I mean, I was living in Delhi. Then I brought her here and she attended a really lovely, you know, school for for deaf adults. It's called the Noida Deaf society where they train you in life skills. They teach you official Indian sign language. And they have a wonderful wonderful, you know, founder called Ruma Rocha. And I remember when she first met my sister, she communicated with her and told her that you know, by the end of your stay here We're going to be talking about our dreams, right? That really brought tears to my eyes. Right and my sister today is, is much more confident. And she's sort of living the life that she should be living. Right. But growing up was, was tough. It was full of questions, a lot of lot of concerns, and all of that. And I think you need a good support system. You need access to information and you need access to education. More than anything else.

Malini Sarma 5:28

Yeah. Yeah, that's very true. So your sister still in Delhi.

Unknown Speaker 5:32

So my sister lives in Goa with my parents. Oh, she does. Right, right. She does. She lives with them. And she's been a great help to them, especially during this quarantine time. Right. Right. She's She's really showed up and really supports them very well and all of that. Okay. And yeah, she's very creative. So she does a lot of crochet and she does, she does a lot of fun things. And she's an active member of the Goa deaf Association as well. Okay.

Malini Sarma 6:03

Okay. So your parents, being teachers, it must have been hard must have been, you know, like you said on you, you don't have access to the right kind of education. But at the end, I guess, you know, having that, like you said having that support system is very important. So,

Merril Diniz 6:20

yes, absolutely.

Malini Sarma 6:22

That's really cool. Shouldn't you say you? You grew up in Muscat, but you came back to India to do your high school and college, right?

Unknown Speaker 6:30

Yes, yes. I think I was always excited to come back to India. I felt like this was a place that needed me. And I needed it. Because, you know, whatever you say about India, no matter how underdeveloped you think it is, it's a vibrant place with vibrant people. And there's always this possibility of doing something new every day. Right, right. Right. So yeah, so I came back to Goa at the age of 15. I you know, lived in a in a hostel because my parents were still in in in Muscot and my my sister was in a school also in Goa Oh, we were both in Goa and we were we would meet on the weekends and all of that. So, so, that was good.

Malini Sarma 7:21

So, then after you finished your high school you did your college or university in Goa and then you move to because I know you have a major in mass communications. Where was that in? Was that in Bombay or in Delhi? not Delhi but Pune? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 7:40

yeah. So basically I I actually did my bachelor's in physics in Goa at Goa University, and I always liked math and physics in school, but somehow I felt college education wasn't wasn't really as as exciting right and, and you You know, I met I met a professor at at the university who had a, she had a club for she had, she called it a communications club. And that's where I got to know about mass communication. I remember her name is Professor sherlyn. And I was quite influenced by her and the way she would talk about mass communication. And that's where I decided that I mean, I want to get into that space. And I've always been somebody who would write a diary, I would write columns in the local newspaper about things that were happening while still in college. So that's when I went to Pune to do mass communication.

Malini Sarma 8:38

Okay. Yeah. So you started with in, in in math and science and and then you went into mass communications and you're still doing that. That's still your field. Right. So from there you moved to Mumbai to to work?

Merril Diniz 8:54

Yes, yes. I moved to Mumbai to work. I was when I joined, you know, I had always had an interest in education and careers. So I joined c education in Mumbai as and I was working in television production actually. So we would create programs, educational programs. Um, and I was there for about one and a half year. And at that point, I don't know whether you remember, but there was a.com bubble, and then there was a.com. Bust. Yes. So the bust impacted me and I lost my job. Mm hmm. And, but, you know, it was really interesting. I had a, I had, like, two friends who were my flatmates. And we we both lost our jobs. So we lost our jobs together. And we were also flatmates. So, we would, you know, so because of that I didn't feel alone in that in that time. And we would both you know, At that point, we didn't have internet at home, right? So we go in internet cafe, and we will apply for jobs every day. And then we talk about it. And then after two months, we both got jobs. And they paid us less than what we were getting before but we were so happy happy.

Malini Sarma 10:17

Seeing this whole time you were in a you're in, in Bombay, right? So I remember I remember when I first came to your apartment there is it Bombay has just different vibe. It's like any, you can do anything, and it would work and you would just still just so happy to like just to be there and do stuff, right? If this is so different, so how did you feel like living because this must have been your first year. This was like your first job when you first moved to Mumbai. It's like working, living on your own in a new city. Right? How does that feel?

Unknown Speaker 10:56

Right so we have a couple of relative lives in Mumbai who are really close to me. I mean, I, when I first moved there, I lived with my aunt who is my dad's sister. And unfortunately, she passed away this year. But probably because of that, you know, I had somebody who was there. But yes, I did move out. And I lived on my own. And it was a very different experience. living on your own and being completely responsible for your own well being, paying your bills every month, and also sort of creating a new life for your own right. New friends, and gonna work, all of that. So it was a really exciting experience for me and I met so many different kinds of people. It was a very eclectic experience, I would say overall, and it has a very, very urban kind of a vibe. And it's also like a cool place where The coolness is not in what people wear, but just in the personal style and the way we conduct ourselves. And so I also, I think, probably evolved quite a bit in Mumbai. And I also did a few other things like I have always been somebody who pursued music in some form. So I joined a choral group called upon Paranjothi academy Chorus. And then I also would sing at nightclubs on the weekends, either with a band or as a duo. So, so there was work and there was music and there was friends. So it was it was a nice, nice experience, especially for somebody in your 20s you know, because the pace of life is very fast. Mm hmm. And, you know, you you party and you party, you work hard and you party hard. I think I did live that mantra for some time.

Merril Diniz 13:00

So yeah, it was a interesting experience. But but you have

Malini Sarma 13:03

always been in communication, right, that has been your pretty much has been your mainstay, right? So though you were in Mumbai, and then you move to Delhi, and you continue to be in the communications field. So how has it changed from where you started and where you are now?

Merril Diniz 13:22

Right. So I think when I first wanted to get into communication, I wanted to be a journalist. But then, I think along the way, I discovered other ways of other kinds of spaces in the communications realm itself, right. So my second job was actually with a digital marketing agency. Okay. And the time when I joined it, nobody knew what was a digital marketing agency. Nobody knew what was digital. It was a very new, very, very new space, right. So I still remember when I would explain what I was doing, I would have to explain it for about 20 to 25 minutes right now. But today, when you say I, I'm a digital marketing, marketing professional, everybody knows what that is, right? So I did that. So that was that was a very, it was exciting for me to be in that space at a time when it was really new, because it sort of set the foundation for all the skills I would develop in the future. Right. And I also did work in editorial roles. So I worked with rediff.com for their youth editorial section. I also worked for this really wonderful magazine called careers 360, which is one of the first you know, critical educational magazines in the country, which actually commented on the quality of education and the way in which our education is shaped, right. I worked there for about five years. So these were really grounding experiences. But I think the more and more that I progressed in my career, the more I started feeling that communication is a very, very strong tool for change, to talk about change to talk about language. You know, it's, it's, if you are good with communication, you can use it in a way that benefits

the world, right?

And that's what I began doing. as I progressed more and more in my career, like when I was a career 360 I would write about the different spaces in education, one was design as a career. So I use communication there to create certain kinds of awareness. Because as you know, in India, we always think, in a very limited way about careers right there are three or four careers that we are aware of, and because We try to box everybody in those spaces. There is a lot of suppression of talent, a lot of suppression of dreams in a way. Right. So that's what I tried to do when I was there. And then I worked at youth ki Avaaz, which is a really wonderful publishing platform where a lot of young people get to raise their voices on things that matter to them. So I was a campaigns editor there. And so that was a very interesting experience as well, because I got to learn so much about issues, right social, socio political issues, like really going into them with depth. Mm hmm. And currently I'm with SHEroes which is a women only social platform, the first and largest online ecosystems specifically designed with women in mind. So it's a safe space on the internet. It's a space where women express themselves fully freely they invest in themselves. And and here like communication that we use is primarily to propel women to go and chase those dreams. Right? Yeah. So that's really exciting as well.

Malini Sarma 17:11

That's really cool. Because, um, I did I have I have the app on my phone and I follow some of the stories and you know, it's it's like you said it's a safe space for women to talk about things that normally they would wouldn't have the courage to say it out loud, because they're, you know, afraid of judgment or, you know, the patriarchy or whatever it may be. So, but as part of, I guess, as part of this platform, or maybe either it was influenced by or maybe not. You also talked about a group that you had joined, coming to regarding financial independence a couple years ago, you joined some group, right. So does the SHEroes group have something to do with that, or? Yes, yes, yes. It was

Merril Diniz 18:01

right, right. So we have a lot of women on our platform. You know, many of them are founders of organizations, artists, etc. Right? So there was this. I mean, I remember seeing this woman who would constantly be talking about financial independence, right? And she, she spoke about it in this language that I could really relate to and connect to, and it had a very high empathy vibe about it. So her name is Priyanka Bhatia. And I remember her talking about her own community, which she started called women on wealth. And she, she would, she would answer questions of women who were having financial difficulties, etc. So I just call called, call them up one day, called up her organization. And I said, I really like the way you talk about money and woman, and I want to know more about it. Right. And at that point, I mean, just to give you a context, I belong to a generation in India, which is sort of like the How do I say the disposable income generation right. After liberalization. We also embrace the economy of credit cards and all of that, right. So somewhere, I think, the traditional mindset of saving very carefully all of that, it got a little messed up, right. So I felt like I'm still kind of living paycheck to paycheck. And yes, I am saving and I am investing but I still don't have complete autonomy and control over where my money is going. And I really, I really wanted some help with the basics of it, right to build some structure around it. And what what I really found in this community is that they host these really wonderful financial literacy programs. And it's not about advising you on where to invest your money. It is really a journey. To do know yourself in the context of your money and your finances, right? Okay, so so it was three month program that I did with them, called the money gym. And it really transformed the way I manage my money. Henceforth, right? So they teach you how to understand what is your net worth, they teach you how to understand what you're bringing in every month and what what is going out and where is it going? And also, there's this, there is this idea of Financial Integrity. Does does, you know is the way you're spending align with your financial and with your life values, right? No. So there are some deeper questions that are asked and that help you that that you end up asking through through these programs. And then of course, once you complete it, you're part of a community so That that was a transformative experience. And I'm still a member of that community today. And I would say that since the time I joined, my net worth has increased about 75%. Okay, wow. And and I and if you look at the way the women in that community, if you look at their stories, you'll find something similar. But after that, like I I still follow a lot of other financial thought leaders. So for instance, Suze Orman, who is really famous in the US, right, I follow all her podcasts. And I really like the way she gets you to, to ask the bigger questions right about money. And also, like Dave Ramsey and a few other thought leaders, but what I like is they they really help women and they help everyday people get savvy about finances, because that's what helps you really choose Is your goals, right? And it helps you spend your money in a way that really sort of benefits you and your dreams. Right? Right. Oh, so that's so that's what my experience has been. So it's it's the, the I feel personally that the best ROI is when you invest in yourself. Oh, absolutely. There's a big there's a best investment you can ever make is in yourself. Yes, absolutely.

Malini Sarma 22:29

That don't know that. That's actually for me look at it. Women have a very different kind of, say attachment towards money, our attitude towards money or emotional attachment towards money is very different. How we look at it, how we spend it, how we save it, you know, it really is really so different. I think now a lot more younger, the younger generation they're a lot more would you say cognizant of that. You know, they like you said they you, you work hard and you play hard. And but they have different is a different outlook compared to say the baby boomers are all about not, you know, figuring out a way not to pay taxes but want to save up everything. current generation is not about saving, but they want to live, they want to live the experience. Right.

Merril Diniz 23:21

Right, right. Absolutely. And one thing I want to add here, right is that many times when we talk about, you know, money in the context of women, we often say that, oh, women don't take enough risks, all of that with investments, but I can totally understand why if you look at a woman's career trajectory and financial trajectory, women earn less than men, right? Because of the gender bias and work, women also take breaks for Caregiving to look after children. So you lose a number of years in building your corpus, right. So so at any given In time, what comes into your life is probably less than what comes into a man's life. So it's it's really understandable that you'd be very careful with your money, you're not going to take risks on things you don't understand. Right? So I would say that if you if you don't understand how to invest, keep your money in the bank, you know, don't just go in and believe anybody who says you're going to get hundred percent returns because there are tons of these schemes and scams all the time. Right, right. But, but if you just read up and you build your financial literacy, you can learn everything yourself. And it's a myth that men know how to manage money better, they don't, but they're just more confident. Right?

Malini Sarma 24:44

That's actually a very profound statement. I don't think a lot of women realize that. Because you know, like, even like as a teacher, when they say in the classroom, you own a teacher asked a question. The girls will always think about whether or not they should raise their hand because, boy, I don't know the whole answer, whereas the boys have always raise their hand, whether they know the answer or not, it's just a question of raising their hand. So I think it's a similar attitude when it comes to money as well. So that's, that's a, it's a very interesting or very profound statement. So that would, that is pretty cool. So you have to this has been, what a couple years since you were in that you are still part of that community, and you're still following the same guidelines and your net worth has increased. So you would definitely recommend that every woman should always look at being at these have their own little nest egg, right. And some people are married and they have shared accounts. And I know I always tell my daughter like it doesn't matter whether you're married or not married. You just got to make sure that you always have your own little, you know, emergency fund for yourself. Yes,

Merril Diniz 25:54

yes, absolutely. I mean, it's highly advisable to have your own corpus To know where it is and how much is in it, and to make sure you have an emergency fund for a good six to eight months, especially in times of crisis, it really makes a difference. And I would say when money is flush, that's the time to save, and to invest smartly. So that when there is a crisis, you feel safe. And you have enough money to get by and, and it doesn't take away your happiness. It doesn't take away your sense of safety, right?

Malini Sarma 26:34

No, no, it doesn't. It's always good to have that little extra saved up somewhere.

Merril Diniz 26:40

Yes, and I and I also say it's never too late. You might be a baby boomer or you're not. It's never too late to start learning about money. And, you know, it's never too late and I've seen even women in who are not earning. They're able to save because money goes into our lives in so many ways, right? It comes at gifts. It comes in different ways. It's not. Right, right, right. Right. Right. But something to note as well.

Malini Sarma 27:11

Okay. No, that that's a that's a good point. So you have been living in Delhi for a while, which is way up in the north far away from the girl from Goa, by the sea. Do you miss Goa?

Unknown Speaker 27:26

Yes.

Malini Sarma 27:27

Very, very good. Do you think you'll go back and just settle there?

Merril Diniz 27:30

Absolutely. I mean, that's on the cards. I would say like, in the next couple of years, I see myself going back because i think i think Goa is a space right now, which really needs its its people to step up and to reclaim, you know, reclaim the land to reclaim the space and to rebuild and to sort of take it into the future in a sustainable way. Right.

Malini Sarma 28:00

its Waiting for you.

Merril Diniz 28:04

waiting for it

Malini Sarma 28:06

So while you are in Delhi and working for SHEroes and doing your thing. Well, you also you're working on some other projects too. So

Merril Diniz 28:14

yeah, so basically I run a blog, I run a blog on, you know, sustainable consumerism. Okay. And basically the background is that in 2014, India passed a legislation banning animal testing for for the cosmetics industry. And, you know, at that time, I didn't even know that there was something called animal testing and that all these beauty products that we use are all tested in labs on cute little beagles and other other animals. And I was pretty horrified by the idea because there is that that involves years of torture, right, right. So um, so I am And what really surprised me is that a lot of companies were trying to overturn that legislation right. So, as I started researching, I realized that there were a lot of Indian brands that were very sustainable in their nature. So, that means there was no animal testing. It was fair trade products, plus the packaging was was they were moving towards more sustainable packaging and good quality, cosmetic and personal care products. Right. So I, I create curated this list of like 50 to 60 Indian brands, and that that particular blog went viral. So that's when I realized that there was this this this growing interest in consumers to move in for safe products which don't have chemicals in them, which which are based on better value system right? But, but obviously there are challenges for these brands because they're competing with very, very powerful, you know, fmcg established brands, right? They were more expensive because they were better quality. and sustaining in such a market is tough. So I started interviewing founders, I started interviewing consumers. And I realized that there was this growing enlightened community of consumers, who but are looking for more products and all of that. So that's really what my blog is about. I feature consumers who are changing the way they consume and rethinking everything that they bring into their lives. And I also interview founders who are thinking about sustainable product systems services, and they're enabling consumers to make that behavior change. Right. So that's what the blog is about, and in sort of like a passion project, okay, and Besides that I also, you know, volunteer with this organization called Suryoday Trust. It's, it's a school in Mumbai, for children with intellectual disabilities. As you know, in India, we still have a segregated education system where children with disabilities are excluded from the mainstream education system. And I think that's morally and ethically wrong on many levels, because you're not allowing a child with a disability to compete. And everybody loses. Right when that happens, because the standard of competition goes down, right? So I volunteer with the school because they're doing some really good work in the interim, and but they don't, they didn't have a very good foot digital footprint. So I'm helping them build that up. Okay. At this point, I just want to, since we're talking about this, why I'm also doing Because I think it's a great way to educate people around disability and understand what is an intellectual disability versus say, a mobility issue, right? Because somewhere in India, I feel like a lot of people don't understand disability very well. And there is a lot of confusion around what what you can or cannot do, because you have a disability, but we the way we need to think about it is that it's not the disability that holds you back. It's the lack of access, right, and the lack of an accessible environment around you, that is stifling you, right. So that mindset switch really still needs to happen here and bring that through projects like this. We can create more awareness as well.

Okay, no, that's that's a that's a very

Unknown Speaker 33:01

Would you call?

Malini Sarma 33:03

brave step you're doing because I think like you said education amongst the people, just the general public is so little because they tend to discriminate against those who have disabilities. Because you should just because you don't fall you're not part of the norm. Right? You don't look normal or whatever. So they just and I mean, it has always been there. I don't know. Now, I don't know if there I don't doesn't sound like that much is improved. But if you know, this platform can help educate. You know, yeah, that would be great. But what is the name of your blog?

Merril Diniz 33:43

Oh, it's called labor labor of love.

Yeah, yeah. labor of love and its a wordpress blog. Okay. So,

Malini Sarma 33:56

yeah, yeah, I'll make sure I put that in the show notes. So you can People do want to check it out.

Merril Diniz 34:02

Yeah. Yeah. It's just merrildeniz.wordpress.com.

Malini Sarma 34:07

Okay. So looking back at your journey, where, you know, you you've gone through so much you've learned so much. You've been been around so many different places met so many different people knowing what you know now, what would you have told your younger self? was it? Was it anything you would have changed about yourself? You think?

Merril Diniz 34:33

Yeah, I think I would have told myself to listen more to my instinct. Because I think there's a lot of social conditioning that we have to escape before we can truly be ourselves. Yes. So I would say listen to your instinct. And listen really hard because your instinct is really like You know, it, it sort of it knows what's best for you in a way. But there is there is this feeling of second guessing ourselves. So that is what I would say, you know, follow your instinct. And you can't go wrong with that. Yes, what I was actually, you

Malini Sarma 35:20

know, that's really true. Is there anything? Any advice you want to shout out to the young women, you know, who are in math and physics or mass communications or design, you know, go out into the big bad world and start living on living their life? Is it based on what you have learned? Is there anything you want to

Unknown Speaker 35:44

shout out to them?

Unknown Speaker 35:47

I think,

Merril Diniz 35:48

yeah, I mean, there's so much actually, you know, but I think I think I would also advise them to, to listen to their instinct and to really observe what's happening. around them. And I think especially living in a patriarchal society, we're constantly being prescribed so many things right? Wear this, dont wear this, dont go here,it's not safe. Girls have to hear a lot. Right? Hmm. And I think you got to create your own safe world around you. And in that safe world, you should find yourself. Right. Yeah. And and yeah, some of that prescription, take it in and some of them throw it away. Because some of it is bad for you. Some of it might be good for you. So just keep the bad and really throw away discard the stuff that you don't connect to the right. If even if it goes against, you know, conformity. Mm hmm. You'll save yourself a lot of grief and you'll save yourself making a lot of mistakes because you listen to somebody else, and you didn't listen to yourself in the right way. So that's, that's what I that's what I say. And that's what I always advise, you know, and that's what I advise myself even today because we still get prescribed a lot of things as women, right, huh? No. Yeah, but that's what I feel.

Malini Sarma 37:25

Yeah, that is that's pretty. That's pretty good. Because I think I think as women, we tend to not listen to our own voices because somebody else's like you said the patriarchy or whoever it is, is always telling us what to do and how to do stuff. And it's, they're always afraid of, what are they gonna say? You know, what's everyone's gonna say? in learning to trust yourself and trust your instinct, trust your gut, is I think the first step to, being fearless. It's learning to stand up and speak your truth.

Merril Diniz 38:01

So yes, you're right, like speak your truth. And there is a lot of value in speaking your truth, even though it's hard, right? I mean, very recently, I had a friend who she, she works in a job. She's a mid management level manager and she was experiencing a kind of harassment at workplace, not at her workplace, but through an external vendor. He was sending her explicit messages and all of that. And I think we still haven't reached a space where we can just call this out. So she had fear. She had fear about her career, all of that and she just decided to call it out. She went to the company, she, she spoke to them about it. And eventually what happened is they they did follow up, follow all the protocols and things turned out well, but it was a tough point in her Life where she had to take a difficult decision. And it could have gone either way. But I think you you got to keep asking yourself what is it you can live with? Right. Right. And and then you take a step based on that. So, so that that's really important to speak the truth that is going to make you feel comfortable.

Malini Sarma 39:18

Yep. I absolutely agree. So thank you so much, Merrill. I really appreciate your coming on the show and talking about your experiences, I think, especially when it comes to finance and, you know, learning to trust your gut. I think that's, uh, you know, it doesn't matter how old you are, whether you're in your 20s or you're in your 60s. I think there's some that's something that we women tend to ignore, because either either we're conditioned that way

Merril Diniz 40:19

my pleasure. Its really awesome to be here on Gladi ATRIX and I love listening to all the interviews of different women. So looking forward to more such conversations around various spaces and slices of life that women are involved in.

Malini Sarma 40:35

No, thank you. I'm so glad I got you on the show. And and I will be talking to you soon. All right. Take care Malini.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai