Season 1, Episode 30
Following the dream from West to East
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In today’s episode I am speaking with Aurelie Ho.
Aurelie Ho is a mum of 2, an entrepreneur, Founder of Girlty.io and the host of the podcast Living With Your(best)self.
She went from working 12h a day in corporate HR feeling overwhelmed and exhausted, to taking back control of her time developing her online business helping creative entrepreneurs & teams get better at what they do.
She helps them piece together the right focus, operations, systems & people they need to grow their business without constantly doing more & burning out.
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If you have a comment or question please reach out to me at email@example.com or on Instagram @gladiatrixpodcast
Unknown Speaker 0:01
Malini Sarma 0:02
Aurelie, thank you so much for joining the podcast. I really, really appreciate you taking the time during the holiday season to come on the show.
Hi, Malini. Nice, thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be on Gladiatrix
Malini Sarma 0:16
Oh, your'e welcome. So you grew up in France, you originally from France. But right now, you are living in Hong Kong. So tell me a little bit more about you know, your upbringing and some of the experiences that you know, kind of shaped who you are as person?
Yes. So, I grew up I grew up in I lived in France for about 20 years before I started to travel with my now husband. So I studied in Paris for most of my childhood. And I grew up in a big family. And we were seven children in the house. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot. So I'm the youngest one. Mm hmm. And, and yes, so that's. That's basically it.
Malini Sarma 1:08
So what were your parents doing? I mean, did you? Were you, you know, you lived in the city? I'm presuming or did you live? Yes. Like in outside?
Unknown Speaker 1:16
in the big city? Yes. So both of my parents were working. They were working very hard. Because they had to support this big family. So we were I think we all had a kind of good childhood. We come from a middle class family. So we went to public school. I'm, I'm the one who went to college. I'm the only one. Okay, in the family. So basically, we've been taught to work hard and then go to work as soon as possible. So we weren't pushed too much on the on the study. Okay. Which was good for me because I wasn't really a good student.
Malini Sarma 1:58
And, and yeah, so I was very inspired by my parents who were working hard. So I think that's shaped a lot of my thinking when I was. Yeah.
Malini Sarma 2:12
So your, your brothers and sisters, you're very close to them? Yeah.
Oh, yes. Yes.
Malini Sarma 2:18
So who are some of your role models growing up?
I see my parents, both of my parents, because I was quite self aware. as a as a child, I was always questioning what people were doing, how things were working. And I was genuinely impressed that my parents had so many children, and they were working hard. And they made sure we had a holy days every year. And even looking back now, I only have two kids. And I think they did really great. And so they did a lot of planning. A lot of budgeting so we could go on holiday. So nine people going on holiday for a year. That's That's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So. So yeah. So
Unknown Speaker 3:07
Malini Sarma 3:07
so you're the youngest of seven. So I'm sure when you're you know, you're you watch your parents, you watch your older brothers and sisters as they were doing their work. So what prompted you to go to college? What What made you think that Okay, I'm going to go to college? What were your parents reaction to what were your siblings reaction when you said, Yeah, so.
So as I, as I said that I wasn't really good students. So during high school, I had to retake one of my year. And I went to boarding school for one year. Oh, yeah. Which was great. And then, but I had, I think I grew up a lot during that time, because I wasn't at home during the week. And sometime I had to spend two or three weeks away from from my home. And I was alternating between work and study. And I was 13 years old. So I was very young to start working. And I was doing study and sport at the same time. So I was doing horse riding, and I had to walk in a horse riding club. And it's kind of hard work because it's a lot of physical work that right?
Malini Sarma 4:18
Yeah. You can clean the stalls and then brush the show horses down and yes, bring
Unknown Speaker 4:23
all of this Yes, it was quite quite hard. But I loved it. But as I was studying these and I had a passion for horse riding, I realized that what I aspired to do was more like to have my own club and managing the voting. And the study that I was doing, it was more to be a teacher or something like this. So it wasn't it wasn't preparing me to or helping me to. I guess I was kind of interested in all in the old management thing. Okay. And if I keep continue on that Steady pass, I would not be able to do it. So I thought, okay, so maybe I should go back to the mainstream study. So I can advance my study and my career, and then I can go back to maybe another type of folks. So I can say more money because for my background, I couldn't just open my, my horse riding club, something that I realized we needed money. So then that's why I choose to go back to mainstream study and study more.
Malini Sarma 5:32
Okay. So now when you went back to you said you were working in a horse riding, stable, and then you were also studying, and when you say you were only 13? At the time, yes, yes. Okay. So what age do they start college? In? When you said mainstream? So you went back to school? Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, so I went back to finish my high school. Okay, then I got my a level. And then after that, I went to, to college to get my my bachelor degree.
Malini Sarma 6:07
So what was your parents reaction when you told them that?
They were, but I think they were happy. But first, I say that I wanted to study in London. So I was the first one going abroad
Malini Sarma 6:20
as Wow. So your parents, were they excited? You're like, okay, you have to get all this stuff, would you? You know, how would you know the language?
Unknown Speaker 6:28
Yeah, I think that they were they were okay with that. Because I, I was always kind of obsessed with my goal. Okay, anytime when I had a goal in mind, I was making sure you that I could do it. So I was doing a lot of planning. And when I had my a level, my grade in English was really bad. Okay, I failed the English subject. And before going on to my to further study, I decided to take a year off, which was not very conventional, because usually you just study you don't, you don't stop in between. and but I didn't really know where I wanted to focus on my study yet. And I also had to do a surgery for my eye. And I knew that at the beginning of the year, I would have to take maybe a month of my study. That's not when you start so for the for the A level. So I said maybe I could take just the year off and see and, and I went to London. Stay with a family. So that was my first big travel alone. And I started to love English.
Malini Sarma 7:46
Yeah, I was gonna ask you, I mean, if you fail the English in the A levels, and then when you move to London on top of that, so now you're surrounded by everybody speaking English, that kind of helped you pick up the language too Right?
Unknown Speaker 7:59
Yeah, exactly. And, and that's where I started to have interest in English. And I realized I could have my career and why it was so important. And before that, I just didn't have any interest in English, and I didn't really study it. And and I guess I've been told that at school that I was bad at English, so I didn't work on it. So yeah. So So. Yeah.
Malini Sarma 8:26
So when you went to London, to go for your higher studies, what were you studying?
So I was studying business management and human resources.
Malini Sarma 8:38
Ah, okay. So that's how you got into HR, because that's where you were studying. Okay. Okay, so you went to do your bachelor's? And then what happened?
And after that, I went to China for one year.
Malini Sarma 8:52
Okay. Part of your of your studies or visit general travel,
Unknown Speaker 8:57
just to travel? Because I wanted to learn Mandarin, which I did not. Yeah, because it was really hard, but and when I was there, because after my level, I didn't know if I wanted to get my master's degree or not. And if you if you work in France, in HR, you need a master degree. But I didn't know if I wanted to really stay in France or travel more. And so yes, I went away for one year to discover another part of the world. And I went to Hong Kong for a short time for I think, one or two months, and I really loved the city and I and I decided that that's where I wanted to move and start my career. So but Hong Kong is very expensive city. So yes, so I went back to France and I worked for one year so I work two jobs. So I had a full time job Monday to Friday at Then I worked a part time job Saturday and Sunday for one year was no day off. So I could save money to move to Hong Kong the next year.
Malini Sarma 10:11
Wow. I mean, so you're not kidding when you said you're very focused on your goals, once you decide what you want to do, you just focus on that, do what it needs to take, and then you just do it. Yeah. So what were your parents reaction when you told them or your sibling when they said, Okay, I'm moving to Hong Kong? Yes.
Well, they were okay with with London when it was very close from France with my mom say yoga Are you going to move 10,000 kilometers away from France is very, very far. But I went to China for for study before Hong Kong, but it was temporary, but now was moving a long time. She was a bit scared, I guess, because she didn't travel much, my mom. And none of my sisters and brothers had done it before. But I think my mom was because maybe I was the youngest one. during my childhood, they let me do a lot of things. So she knew I really wanted to do it. So she didn't. Usually she didn't really give her opinion. She gives advice, but she will not try to change my mind. So that's something that's that was really helpful for me to try things. That that's really awesome.
Malini Sarma 11:32
So what what happened after you moved to Hong Kong, we see Did you find a job there? Is that what happened?
So I went there with my my husband. So most of
Malini Sarma 11:41
you were already you were already. So where do you meet your husband?
Yeah, I met him in France just the year before we went to London. Okay.
Malini Sarma 11:49
So he was studying there.
He was studying in France. And it was actually his last year and he didn't want you to study more. Okay, what he's done was to just go to work after that. But I I tried to convince him to go to further education.
Malini Sarma 12:06
He is he is he French? Or is he from another country?
Unknown Speaker 12:10
He is French. But both of his parents are from Hong Kong.
Unknown Speaker 12:13
Oh, okay. Okay.
And, yeah, so I convinced him to, to look into further education and look at these different options, and see whether you really wanted to go to work now or maybe. And I guess, because of the, maybe my HR focus. I'd like to show him that he had more options. And then he, he wanted to study in London as well. So we both went to London with different schools. And then we went to China together, he went to study there for his master degree. Okay. And then we went back, I went back to France to, to work for one year, and he went back to UK for one more year. Okay. And then when I saved enough money for Hong Kong, and when he was done with this master, we both came to Hong Kong, with our luggage, and we just started to look for a job.
Malini Sarma 13:12
Okay, so you planned it pretty well, to make sure that it was time right?. So you could be together? Right? Okay, that's pretty cool. Oh, so does your husband speak Mandarin?
A little bit, but he speak Cantonese. Oh, he's
Malini Sarma 13:24
better. Okay. They speak Cantonese. Okay. That's right. In Hong Kong. Do most people speak Cantonese? Oh, yes. Cantonese. Ah, okay. Okay. So. So once you were in Hong Kong, then you you both of you look for jobs. And you're just and then you decided to just settle there. So you've been there for a few years now? because now you're married and got kids?
Unknown Speaker 13:46
Yes. Yeah, we came here in 2011. So we stayed there for three years at first. And it went very quickly, because we were both focusing on on work. And then we got married and then I had my first child. And after that, we decided to go back to France temporarily because in his job, my husband, he had the opportunity to go back to France to be with the head office in France because he was working for a French company. And at that time, I I just quit a job because I was close to burnout. And it was a good time for us to go back to be close to our family for a little while, but we knew it was just temporary. Because we we still wanted to to be more to explore more. We actually love to live abroad.
Malini Sarma 14:48
You know what once the travel bug hits, it's very hard to like stay nice to stay in one place. I can I can see that from experience in you know, I I left my home country. You know when 30 years ago, so it's I understand how you feel. It's the bug, the travel bug bites you then it's very hard. Yes. So so you you studied HR. And when you were in Hong Kong, you were you were working in HR setting. Yeah. And what happened after that? I mean, because I know, you started decided to start your own business. But what was it like working in HR mean, for you to turn around and say, Okay, I'm done?
Unknown Speaker 15:30
Yes, well, the first job I had in Hong Kong was quite comfortable. And after two years ago, I was starting to get bored. So I looked at my options, and my network, and I had the opportunity to change jobs, and right after my maternity leave, to take on a new job, and on on paper, it was the dream job. It was to take care of expatriates. And I saw that refit me well, and that's something I aspired for for a while. But when I took the job, it was, it was very far from the job description. There was many things are not working well, I'm on that job. But because I'm used to work hard, I try to make it work for the first couple of months. And I was exhausted because I was, the more it didn't work, the more I put in more hours. And I had my baby at home, I was sleep deprived. I was, yeah, it was it was it was quite intense. And at some point, I realized that it wasn't working. And even if I say one or two more years, there was a lot of things we could have do, we could have done to reorganize the work. Especially because we are in HR. So it was our job to we could have done something but there was things not working well with the team. And I decided to, to leave because I couldn't see myself in the same situation in six months, or one year from now from the time.
Unknown Speaker 17:09
and I took a couple of months off to to be with my my daughter. And I could finally enjoy time with her. Because I had missed so many, so many nights, so many time with her on weekends, because I was working all the time. So when I quit, and I had finally that time with her, I, I started to to think about what I really wanted to do with my life. And I wanted to put my family first and going into another job probably wouldn't hurt. have me do that. And especially in HR, because it's quite an intensive job. Usually you have lots of things to do. And, and in HR. You have a lot of admin work to do a lot of payroll and all of things. And I was more interested in working on performers helping people getting better at their job, things like this. But usually when you have a kind of hands off hands on HR role, that's the least since you focus on you don't focus on developing the people. That's very, usually the last thing and that's what I wanted to focus on. And so yeah, so I decided to start my business so I could use my potential and I could use the time that I had the way I wanted to.
Malini Sarma 18:35
And so I'm waiting was your company's reaction when you left? I mean, was there a lot of, you know, accusations and stuff or they were, you know, it was like, mutually? Because, because I know how it feels when you're in a situation like that. And there's no matter how hard you work, it just seems to get worse and worse. And at the end of the day, you wonder if there's something wrong with you? Or is there something wrong with the company or you know, or the job or the situation or whoever it is? So it must have been so hard for you to because you were all you know, you were struggling with the you can make them happy. You're You know, you're sleep deprived, you're missing your family. It's like how do you come up with like, Okay, that's it. I'm going to start my own business. I mean, how did you go from, you know, all I need to do is just take a nap and I want to spend time with my daughter to That's it. I'm done. I want to start something on my own. How did how did that? Yes.
Unknown Speaker 19:30
I think because I tried so hard to make the job work. And once I decided to quit and again, I think it's about making my mind and having an object like deciding once I decided that I would quit the job and I couldn't put more effort into this end. I told my my the company I was going to leave. It was not a surprise because we knew it wasn't working with the team and I propose to change things. But it didn't come fast enough. Right? Right. So, so we knew it wasn't working. And so it wasn't a surprise when I decided to leave. And we Yeah, I think once you decide to quit, there's nothing more you can do. But after that, I didn't just write a sub my business right away, I needed to take some time to, to rest and disconnect from work. Because when you close to burnout, as you say, emotionally, I think it's really hard, physically and emotionally, when you're burned out. You need time to, to disconnect, and also to rebuild your confidence, I think, because of course, you wonder if there's something wrong with you when things are not working, especially if you put in the work, you put in the hours and you try your best and doesn't work. It's very frustrating. And I've met in my career, many people were burned out, and it took them a few months or years sometimes to get back on their feet. So So yeah, I took a few months off. But then I, I, I didn't see myself, just staying at home and taking care of my daughter, even if it was good. I needed something to work on, I needed to choose my brain more and to start focusing on something else as well. So that's why after a couple of months, I started to work on my on my first business.
Malini Sarma 21:34
So what was that? What was the first business that you did?
So it was a hiring platform? Okay, because I've done so much hiring and that was the network I had in Hong Kong and my experience. So I sought, especially as an HR, I think you think a lot about Have you think a lot of your resume, and what you're doing next means it needs to make sense with what you've done previously. And so yes, so naturally, I went, I wanted to keep working on on hiring. And I thought I knew the market very well with my connections. So I knew there were a need on the market for French speakers in Hong Kong. So I wanted to focus on that. And I walked for a couple of years on building a website, making sure I had the right system. To have everything working. I had hundreds of people to try the website, I had unpaid clients to
Malini Sarma 22:31
Unknown Speaker 22:33
And then, and then nothing happened. I didn't have one cell. Because I didn't try. I think I I've had enough fears that I couldn't do it because it was my first time being an entrepreneur, and I didn't go for the sell. So I focus too much on building the system and not do operations.
Malini Sarma 22:57
Okay, you and you, you were focusing on the tools and not what people actually wanted. And as a result you never took off.
Yeah, I think when you have your business and you don't go out there to try to sell if you because I was meeting people, I was meeting companies, but I was offering them to test the platform. I didn't. I didn't dare to ask for the sale. I guess I wasn't ready for for that. And after two years, I got I think I lost my passion for the whole thing. And I just didn't dare to try to set the scene.
Malini Sarma 23:37
Mm hmm. Yes. So then what happened after that.
So after that, I wanted to, to change things because I used to meet a lot of people and just working on a website and working on the on the back office thing for two years, I wanted to I see I wanted to get close to what I used to do in HR, I was missing the interaction with people. And so at that time, we went back to Hong Kong after spending two years in France. So also, for my first business, the hiring platform, I tried to do it from France, maybe also that was the challenge as well. So so when I went back to Hong Kong, and my after a year my daughter went to school, because before that I had my daughter with me for the first two or three years. So that was a challenge as well to try to to squeeze as many work hours as I could while taking care of her full time. That was a real challenge. And when I went back to Hong Kong and finally she was at school, things started to change. And I I pivoted my business into an offer a service offer so I could meet more clients and more people And I started to, to serve startups and small businesses to help them build their their HR. So they all hold people operations.
Malini Sarma 25:10
Okay. So now I didn't realize that in Hong Kong you would need, you know that you did, they will require French speaking. People. Are there a lot of French companies are?
Yeah, there's a lot of French companies. So it's an issue. But definitely, it's hard for them to find a French speakers, especially if they want them to speak Mandarin or Cantonese. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Malini Sarma 25:36
So So you went when you once you started, you pivoted, and you were helping startups do their HR? Did that take off?
Yeah, very, very fast, actually. So once my daughter was at school, and once I rebuild my offer, I started to meet with companies. And this time I made sure I went for the sale. So and I quickly took on more clients that I could serve. And it was working well. And I started to, to always want to offer more to the camera. So instead of focusing on one thing in HR, I was working on the whole people operations. I myself before for a few startups. So So yeah, so I quickly saw that time, I didn't put the right system in place. And I was too much in the operation. Which I think is good when when you want to build up your experience. But I already had the HR experience. That's why I was good at doing what I did. But it was hard for me to take on more clients, because I couldn't take more than what I was handling. And my client wants to work with me that he doesn't want you to work with other people. And I try to to put more people. So I hired a few times. And I propose to have also people working for them. But mainlands didn't wanted to they wanted to work with me. So that was hard for me to grow the team and grow the revenue. So I was reaching cap very quickly. And, and also, because I took on too many things. I was working hard again, working many hours. And I I realized quickly that I couldn't grow it as a as an agency, or I saw myself having more people in the company, but that was not happening. And and yeah, so basically that that was it
Malini Sarma 27:43
said now, but that's but that's not what you do now, is it? It's changed since then. Right? Change,
Unknown Speaker 27:50
yes, it did change. And I still do some of the things that I was doing, that I loved, which was working on performance and goals and helping people in their job. But instead of helping the whole company, the startup, I focus on the entrepreneurs who the founder, and I had them pet the rightest hands and the operations and focus and building their team. But I'm not the one doing it now not HR beginning of the team. So I changed it from doing this online as to to just take control of my time. So I don't have some more to like, Yeah, because before, when I started to take on the my different clients in startup clients, I had to work many times from their offices. And I had a lot of schedules to manage a lot of people schedules to manage. And it meant that I had to squeeze my personal time into this. And I had my daughter to take care of, at the time of so she went to school. But school finished very early in Hong Kong. So as 3pm she was out. And so it was always a struggle for me to pick up her at school. I was always the last parent to come to me. And she always asked me, Why do you come so late? And I always told her I was in a meeting, I was caught up with my clients and and it started to take on too much of my life. And that's why and I loved what I did. But I wanted to make it more flexible. So that's why I've now focus on doing it online. So I don't have to go to my clients anymore. And I'm actually developing some course so I can have more people. But I can also have more control of my time. Yes, that
Malini Sarma 29:48
is awesome. That's really cool. It's good. Now you have now you have two babies, right? I mean, yeah, you have two kids. Yeah. And so you've managed to balance you know, parenting and Reaching out to children and having your own business? Yes, by making choices and saying I am only willing to do this much, right? So
yes, exactly. But it took me it took me a while. I mean, it's been a long journey. And especially I think, since starting started to change, really, when I had my second child, I didn't want it to miss on on oldest thing that I missed with my daughter. And I really wanted to put my family first this time and build my business around my priorities. Yeah,
Malini Sarma 30:37
no, that is, I mean, I totally get what you're saying. Because it, you know, as a parent, you're trying to do everything. And then you realize you can't please anybody. So you really have to make a choice to decide how you want to move ahead. And you know, what is important to you? And what your priorities are really?
Yes, yes. And after, after they we grew up, and they will live their life and all. So the time I have now with them, is not going to come back. Exactly. So that's why I want to focus on them right now. And then when they will grow up, and they will go to college and everything. Of course I can, I will add up my business, I think when one thing that took me a long time to realize is that I had, I had my reality with my kids. And because I used to work hard, I always wanted to provide more for my clients instead of, of really looking at how many hours I had in a day and what I really could take on. So So yeah, so now I make sure I plan everything well, and I don't I take care of everybody's expectation, but especially Mine, mine first. So so I don't burn out.
Malini Sarma 31:58
That is that is so important mental health, making sure you're taking care of yourself so that you can take care of the others that are important, right? Yes, yes. So. So now looking back, you know, at your bit your journey you've done, you've come so far, knowing all the things that you know, now, what would you have told you younger self? Or is there anything that you would have changed?
Unknown Speaker 32:24
I would I would try more.
Malini Sarma 32:28
You worked really hard, you would still try more?
Yes, I would, because I still had a fears and anxiety. And there's a lot of small moments in your life that you think it has a huge impact on your life. But it has not. Because if you especially when you're young, using every everything in the prison has a lot of importance, like a meeting conversations, things like this. So I would, I would try to stress less, really, and try more, especially with my first business to try to sell and to their to do it until I have 100 knows. Because now looking back at the first business, I I build everything, and then I didn't even try to sell it. So I think if I did try, I would maybe had 100 News, but I would have had clients. And I could have turned it around. But then after a few years, I just didn't have the energy to put into that business again. I would try more. I would dare to have rejections because it's part of the process. And it's no more but Yeah, I will. I will try more.
Malini Sarma 33:47
Okay, so now, having already done I know you went to college for HR, you worked in HR, you started your own business. So if somebody wanted to either go into HR or start their own business, what is the top three pieces of advice that you would give them?
Unknown Speaker 34:05
I would tell them to listen to themselves. Listen to what they want to do, especially in edge if they want to go in HR. There's a lot of people who will tell them that a lot of things are not possible and you have to do things a certain way. But especially if you're into people development there they are good companies out there that will let you do this we let you take care of their people into their culture and everything so it's possible so you you have to stay to stand your ground. And and don't let people tell you that things are not possible. So so that's one thing Listen, to listen to themselves. And then I see it goes together I will tell them to don't wait for permission to to do something Don't don't ask for people to validate the ideas or, and just try. Try it. Yes.
Malini Sarma 35:08
No, that's, that's very important. I didn't realize the you know, when I didn't realize when even I do it a lot. I keep saying Is this okay? Is this okay? Like at some point in time, you need to stop asking people and just go do it. And then yeah, you you would know whether,
yeah. And many people in my life friends, family teachers, they've told me that I couldn't do it or that what I wanted to do was impossible, like, even going to China moving to Hong Kong, people were always telling me, but what if this doesn't work? What would you do? There will always take talking about the risk, which exists, of course, but if you don't try, then you never know. You never know if it could happen. And every time when you had a new goal, or if you want to start something new, like if you want to start a new job and you carrier or business, it seems doesn't work out, you can always you can almost always go back to your previous situation and bounce back from this
Malini Sarma 36:06
to be true. Yeah, there's nothing to be afraid of. If it didn't work, you can always go back home, right?
Unknown Speaker 36:12
Malini Sarma 36:13
Yes. No, no, this is great. Well, thank you so much, Orly. I really appreciate you taking the time. This is this is really awesome. I'm really I'm I'm so geeked that you actually went all the way from France to Hong Kong. And you're so there and you're planning to move again, right?
Yes. Next month.
Malini Sarma 36:33
You know, your travel start again. Right? Yes.
Unknown Speaker 36:37
Malini Sarma 36:39
That is great. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. And I really appreciate your taking the time. Yes. Thank you for having me. You're very welcome.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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37 – A car accident made Mandeep Kaur realize that life is too short. She quit her 9 to 5 and jumped into ecommerce using the Fulfilled by Amazon model. She is now on a journey to make 7 figures. This is her story.
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